Microsoft is basically discontinuing Windows. What will happen, then?
Bruno Dias
Posted: 10/18/24
First, it just won't run on the majority of hardware that currently runs Windows 10. This isn't just, like, ancient hardware; I have a desktop gaming PC that is perfectly fine to play current-gen AAA games on; it's what I played Cyberpunk 2077 on and that was totally okay. But somehow it doesn't meet Win11 requirements because of the CPU; it has a Ryzen 5 1600X in it, a CPU from 2017 that is apparently still actively being manufactured.
[...]
Second, win11 is unsecurable, because they implemented a feature (recall) that is just constantly screen recording everything you do on the computer, creating a sort of one-stop-shop for compromising literally anything. It functionally means that you can't be sure your computer hasn't, say, saved a password in plaintext (effectively) just because you had the 'show password' switch flipped once.
Those two things make win11 untenable for probably the majority of its users. Hardware compatibility will stop a ton of people on older or lower end personal machines. Individuals, small businesses, the public school in your town that hasn't had money for new computers in five or ten years. Recall being a major security flaw will, I fucking hope, give pause to a ton of institutional users. Is a computer with Win11 even legal to use in some restrictive settings like government offices, militaries, or hospitals?
Shel Raphen
Posted: 10/18/24
We have really been struggling with this at work. The advantage of Windows over Macs used to be that it was highly customizable and excellent for Enterprise systems with a lot of users. It also used to have cheap and free licenses for "learning institutions" which is a category Microsoft has slowly been shrinking to include fewer and fewer institutions causing already under-funded public institutions to have to spend exorbitant amounts of money on windows licenses that they can't even use because the Recall feature is a violation of federal laws regarding computer security for certain public institutions. It's totally a disaster. We've had brand new windows 11 machines for our patrons to use just sitting in the back for nearly a year now because our IT department can't figure out how to essentially hack windows to comply with federal security regulations and every time they get it usable, a new update reverts everything because in Windows 11 you can't customize which updates you accept it's all just a bundle. Our IT guys are also just complaining that the ability to make the computers locked down enough to be for public use really does not exist in windows 11 in the way it used to in older versions of windows.
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One of the more dystopian feeling things about the current zeitgeist is watching the unsustainable technological status quo of the last thirty years break down. Those of us born in the 90s and 80s watched computers grow better and better, and now they are getting worse without obvious solutions or ways to opt out. It's surreal to watch it all decline as we experience a moment of change in history. Things we became accustomed to are breaking down.
Natalie
Posted: 10/30/24
I've been worrying about this as well. I consider myself at least moderately a Linux sicko—I've had at least one daily driver Linux desktop consistently since before college, although most of that time it's been my work device—and I'm still not excited about switching over full-time. The hegemony gets me coming and going: I don't want to switch away because there's just too much software that assumes everyone has access to Windows[1], and if I do switch all the support will be worse because the userbase is so much smaller and more fragmented than Windows.
I think the lack of fragmentation is an underappreciated benefit of the Windows ecosystem. There's no concept of "distributions" or different ways to set up core services, so even when the solution to a given problem is as obscure in Windows as it is in Linux (which I think happens more often than the popular imagination credits), there's only one obscure solution that will work on every computer[2]. In order to be comparably "easy" in a practical sense, Linux actually needs its solution to each problem to be substantially simpler than on Windows to make up for the fragmentation gap.
What I'm loosely planning to do if Bruno's Scenario 1 plays out is to set up a Linux partition on my (currently Windows-only) personal desktop and use that as my primary personal computer. I mostly use that computer for Plex, games, and miscellaneous web browsing anyway, so as long as games have Linux support (ideal) or a decent Proton story (livable) this will be fine. For modding or games that just can't function on Linux, I'll have a Windows partition where I keep the absolute bare minimum of credentials and personal data. This outcome sucks, but at least it sucks in the direction of me taking more control over my digital life.
[1] For example, all the From Software modding infrastructure is built on Windows-only .NET GUI libraries. It's possible to get it working through WINE or Proton, but it's a huge pain—I know because I've done a bunch of work to get my mods working for Proton users, despite not using it myself. ↩︎
[2] Different major OS versions complicate this a bit, but there's rarely more than two Windows versions in wide use and plenty of solutions work across both at any given time. ↩︎
Moose
Munchin and Musing
Posted: 10/31/24
Unfortunately, I don't think for most people Windows 11 Recall or hardware requirements will dissuade the average user or company from using Windows 11. I think for people who have used nothing but Windows their whole life, they'll just upgrade to something that can run windows 11. They'll gripe about it but, there's not much of an alternative for them. Apple is going to be more expensive than a windows PC running Windows 11. Also the average person largely does not seem to care about privacy concerns (looking at how many people use TikTok). They just want something that works and works how they're used to. For power users btw, this is a great site that you can create an install USB with a lot of Windows fluff/ shit disabled . Video about how to use that website here.
As for institutions, I think it's going to be a similar story unfortunately. So many places are already deeply invested in Windows and so will just keep with it. I work in IT for a Government Organization and I can't imagine trying to explain to our users how something like a Mac works. As for the concern about "Will governments even be able to use Windows 11 with things like Recall?" and the answer is yes. We've rolled out Windows 11 to all of our users. Granted, it's a bit more trimmed down than regular Windows 11 (a lot of bloat apps removed, our own programs installed, etc.) and to my knowledge none of them have Recall on them.
Obviously, this might change. Microsoft could just turn around and go "Lol, get fucked, here's Recall". But I'd honestly be kind of surprised if they end up doing that? I know already their licenses for Government orgs are different than standard licenses, so I'd imagine if they really want to push recall on the average person that they'd make an exception for Government tenants. Though who knows. But I sort of doubt more highly secure organizations would be okay with Recall.
It also just really sucks right now though, if you are someone concerned with Privacy and AI and such. I know personally I really dislike how hard Windows is pushing their Copilot Ai (even putting a physical button on keyboards for it). I was hoping Apple may not do the same thing but nope, Apple Intelligence is being pushed on everything (though at least from marketing it seems all of that stuff stays local on device at least?). This leaves Linux but, as you mentioned above, I'm also hesitant to switch full time to it. There are so many programs I use that work on Windows that I worry would be a pain on linux. Or even things just like Gaming would become difficult. I know with the Steam Deck gaming on Linux has gotten a lot better/ easier, but I still don't think it's going to be as easy as Gaming on Windows
The point Shel made about not being able to opt out of these changes also hits close to home. It's what really gets me about the AI stuff. I get that for some users AI can be super helpful, and they have no issues with it. But I personally rather be able to turn it off. But with a lot of changes coming for Windows that I don't like, there's simply nothing to be done about it. Feels that way with Smartphones too.
posted on azhdarchid.com Microsoft is basically discontinuing Windows. What will happen, then?
First, it just won't run on the majority of hardware that currently runs Windows 10. This isn't just, like, ancient hardware; I have a desktop gaming PC that is perfectly fine to play current-gen AAA games on; it's what I played Cyberpunk 2077 on and that was totally okay. But somehow it doesn't meet Win11 requirements because of the CPU; it has a Ryzen 5 1600X in it, a CPU from 2017 that is apparently still actively being manufactured.
[...]
Second, win11 is unsecurable, because they implemented a feature (recall) that is just constantly screen recording everything you do on the computer, creating a sort of one-stop-shop for compromising literally anything. It functionally means that you can't be sure your computer hasn't, say, saved a password in plaintext (effectively) just because you had the 'show password' switch flipped once.
Those two things make win11 untenable for probably the majority of its users. Hardware compatibility will stop a ton of people on older or lower end personal machines. Individuals, small businesses, the public school in your town that hasn't had money for new computers in five or ten years. Recall being a major security flaw will, I fucking hope, give pause to a ton of institutional users. Is a computer with Win11 even legal to use in some restrictive settings like government offices, militaries, or hospitals?
posted on shelraphen.com We have really been struggling with this at work. The advantage of Windows over Macs used to be that it was highly customizable and excellent for Enterprise systems with a lot of users. It also used to have cheap and free licenses for "learning institutions" which is a category Microsoft has slowly been shrinking to include fewer and fewer institutions causing already under-funded public institutions to have to spend exorbitant amounts of money on windows licenses that they can't even use because the Recall feature is a violation of federal laws regarding computer security for certain public institutions. It's totally a disaster. We've had brand new windows 11 machines for our patrons to use just sitting in the back for nearly a year now because our IT department can't figure out how to essentially hack windows to comply with federal security regulations and every time they get it usable, a new update reverts everything because in Windows 11 you can't customize which updates you accept it's all just a bundle. Our IT guys are also just complaining that the ability to make the computers locked down enough to be for public use really does not exist in windows 11 in the way it used to in older versions of windows.
One of the more dystopian feeling things about the current zeitgeist is watching the unsustainable technological status quo of the last thirty years break down. Those of us born in the 90s and 80s watched computers grow better and better, and now they are getting worse without obvious solutions or ways to opt out. It's surreal to watch it all decline as we experience a moment of change in history. Things we became accustomed to are breaking down.
posted on nex-3.com I've been worrying about this as well. I consider myself at least moderately a Linux sicko—I've had at least one daily driver Linux desktop consistently since before college, although most of that time it's been my work device—and I'm still not excited about switching over full-time. The hegemony gets me coming and going: I don't want to switch away because there's just too much software that assumes everyone has access to Windows[1], and if I do switch all the support will be worse because the userbase is so much smaller and more fragmented than Windows.
I think the lack of fragmentation is an underappreciated benefit of the Windows ecosystem. There's no concept of "distributions" or different ways to set up core services, so even when the solution to a given problem is as obscure in Windows as it is in Linux (which I think happens more often than the popular imagination credits), there's only one obscure solution that will work on every computer[2]. In order to be comparably "easy" in a practical sense, Linux actually needs its solution to each problem to be substantially simpler than on Windows to make up for the fragmentation gap.
What I'm loosely planning to do if Bruno's Scenario 1 plays out is to set up a Linux partition on my (currently Windows-only) personal desktop and use that as my primary personal computer. I mostly use that computer for Plex, games, and miscellaneous web browsing anyway, so as long as games have Linux support (ideal) or a decent Proton story (livable) this will be fine. For modding or games that just can't function on Linux, I'll have a Windows partition where I keep the absolute bare minimum of credentials and personal data. This outcome sucks, but at least it sucks in the direction of me taking more control over my digital life.
[1] For example, all the From Software modding infrastructure is built on Windows-only .NET GUI libraries. It's possible to get it working through WINE or Proton, but it's a huge pain—I know because I've done a bunch of work to get my mods working for Proton users, despite not using it myself. ↩︎
[2] Different major OS versions complicate this a bit, but there's rarely more than two Windows versions in wide use and plenty of solutions work across both at any given time. ↩︎
Unfortunately, I don't think for most people Windows 11 Recall or hardware requirements will dissuade the average user or company from using Windows 11. I think for people who have used nothing but Windows their whole life, they'll just upgrade to something that can run windows 11. They'll gripe about it but, there's not much of an alternative for them. Apple is going to be more expensive than a windows PC running Windows 11. Also the average person largely does not seem to care about privacy concerns (looking at how many people use TikTok). They just want something that works and works how they're used to. For power users btw, this is a great site that you can create an install USB with a lot of Windows fluff/ shit disabled . Video about how to use that website here.
As for institutions, I think it's going to be a similar story unfortunately. So many places are already deeply invested in Windows and so will just keep with it. I work in IT for a Government Organization and I can't imagine trying to explain to our users how something like a Mac works. As for the concern about "Will governments even be able to use Windows 11 with things like Recall?" and the answer is yes. We've rolled out Windows 11 to all of our users. Granted, it's a bit more trimmed down than regular Windows 11 (a lot of bloat apps removed, our own programs installed, etc.) and to my knowledge none of them have Recall on them.
Obviously, this might change. Microsoft could just turn around and go "Lol, get fucked, here's Recall". But I'd honestly be kind of surprised if they end up doing that? I know already their licenses for Government orgs are different than standard licenses, so I'd imagine if they really want to push recall on the average person that they'd make an exception for Government tenants. Though who knows. But I sort of doubt more highly secure organizations would be okay with Recall.
It also just really sucks right now though, if you are someone concerned with Privacy and AI and such. I know personally I really dislike how hard Windows is pushing their Copilot Ai (even putting a physical button on keyboards for it). I was hoping Apple may not do the same thing but nope, Apple Intelligence is being pushed on everything (though at least from marketing it seems all of that stuff stays local on device at least?). This leaves Linux but, as you mentioned above, I'm also hesitant to switch full time to it. There are so many programs I use that work on Windows that I worry would be a pain on linux. Or even things just like Gaming would become difficult. I know with the Steam Deck gaming on Linux has gotten a lot better/ easier, but I still don't think it's going to be as easy as Gaming on Windows
The point Shel made about not being able to opt out of these changes also hits close to home. It's what really gets me about the AI stuff. I get that for some users AI can be super helpful, and they have no issues with it. But I personally rather be able to turn it off. But with a lot of changes coming for Windows that I don't like, there's simply nothing to be done about it. Feels that way with Smartphones too.